Collaboration in action: Keri Wong and the power of community

In the first episode of the UK Young Academy’s podcast, meet member Keri Wong, a psychologist and criminologist. Keri shares her journey in academia, her research focus on youth mental health and community engagement, and her involvement with the UK Young Academy.

She discusses her research experiences, the impact of her work, and the importance of collaboration among early-career researchers. Keri emphasises the need for scientists to engage in science diplomacy and the value of community in driving positive change.

Learn more about Keri and connect:

• LinkedIn⁠
• ⁠Keri’s Wong Lab website⁠
• ⁠Google Scholar

Transcript

Please note that these transcripts have been automatically generated and may feature errors.

Wenmiao Yu (01:05) 

Today on the podcast, have Keri Wong, one of our UKYA members. Keri, would you like to tell us a bit more about who you are and what you do? 

Keri Wong (01:13) 

Firstly, thanks Alastair and Wenmiao for ⁓ inviting me on this podcast. I’m an associate professor of developmental psychology based at UCL. I’m also a criminologist by training. So a bit of a hybrid situation going here. I love art ⁓ on the side. If I didn’t become a psychologist, I would probably have become an artist. So yeah, here’s a little bit about me. 

Wenmiao Yu (01:38) 

I love that wide range of interests that you have, us about how your career journey started and how that led to where you are now. 

Keri Wong (01:45) 

Sounds good. I guess I’m a career academic. I never always knew that I was going to become an academic. It was really a few, I guess, influential mentors I met during my undergraduate years whilst I was studying psychology and criminology that me find my path in academia. certainly they guided me or showed me what academia really is like and how enjoyable it  can be. So I’ve found to really enjoy my work and so glad I have this career. certainly a lot of the research projects that I do and the students and engagements work that I do as well, lends itself to the passion I have, which is to make an impact, both in education and people’s lives being able to do that more widely. 

A lot of my work actually focuses on communities and young people, particularly young people who are and don’t usually have a voice at the table, as it were, decision making is happening. And in the last 18 months or so, I have the privilege of being seconded to the Home Office as part of a UKRI ESRC Policy Fellowship. What this means is that I got 18 months of experience and exposure to what it’s like to be inside a government department and to see how change can take place as well and how academics can really influence that space. And so as a result, I’m hoping that I’ve come out of the 18 months with sort of renewed hope as well in how academia and government can better work together. And how important this relationship is. So I’m looking forward to doing more work in this space as well. 

Wenmiao Yu (03:31) 

That’s great. sounds like you’ve had a really busy past year and a half. love to learn more about some of your core research work at UCL. 

Keri Wong (03:39) 

So kind of two main projects are happening at the moment in my lab. And for those of you who are interested, can look me up, it’s the Wong Lab at one project, which is close to my heart, looks at the role of youth clubs and community centers and its impact on young people’s health. So we’re talking about mental health, physical health, social health, as well as brain health. 

There’s not a lot of research or evidence showing the impact of these spaces on young people’s lives, but our project really is sort of the first one to evidence this in a very rigorous way. We’re hoping the projects just wrapped up, so we’re hoping to write up and share those findings pretty soon. So watch the space. Second project that I’m also very keen on and I allude to in my introduction just a sort of collaboration with the National Saturday Club in the UK. So this project looks at the role of creative education activities on young people’s mental health. So we are, my lab and my students were evaluating the role of creative education on young people’s mental health. Particularly these are young people who otherwise wouldn’t have access to creative arts at all. So every Saturday, around the country in the UK, many spaces open up for tutors to teach art, as it were, and creative education to young people between the ages of 13 and 16. And so, you know, the sector, the art sector is also very much underfunded. Oftentimes, the evidence is quite sparse. There’s not a lot of longitudinal data or evidence to show that things work. 

And so an evaluation of this kind is going to be very impactful and hopefully we’ll come out of the end of the project with a few resources as well so that other smaller charities doing similar work can also continue to do the good work that’s happening and making impact locally. So that’s second project that I’m really excited about as well as opening up future research directions in this space as well. 

Wenmiao Yu (05:50) 

Have there been any findings in either of those two research projects so far that really surprised you? 

Keri Wong (05:56) 

Hmm, surprise, maybe not so much surprise. I think a lot of times it’s almost like you go in with a hypothesis or gut feeling that these spaces or these activities should matter and impact on people’s lives. And I think now we are actually producing the evidence for that to support some of these claims. And I think that’s where it’s pleasant surprise as it were. And I certainly hope that more academics and researchers in the space will continue to be interested in this work and that funding actually gets allocated to the work that we are trying to do as a result. 

Wenmiao Yu (06:34) 

And Keri, alongside your research activities, you also became earlier this year, a member of the UK Young Academy. What motivated you to first get involved in that? 

Keri Wong (06:42) 

This is a great question. So those of you who are listening might be wondering or considering whether to join UKYA or not. I certainly maybe at the beginning was at two minds when I first saw sort of ads for it. I think it must have been on social media or LinkedIn and things because I guess I wasn’t sure whether UKYA was for everyone who are also maybe not in the sciences.

Keri Wong (07:07) 

I think at the beginning, I wasn’t sure, but I still ended up applying because I saw the variety of people in the community and the bios of each of them and was very much excited by the prospects of meeting other like-minded individuals who are passionate about making a change both locally and internationally. I think for me, the key themes that really resonated with the work that I do and things that I feel passionate about are definitely education or education inequalities, as well as health inequalities. If I could play a role in the climate action piece, I would love to as well and share my expertise. And so I think the interdisciplinary community of change makers really why I was drawn to applying for UKYA. 

Alistair McConnell (07:58) 

So Keri, that was really interesting, all the work that you’ve been doing. I’m just gonna go a little bit more kind of in depth into actually what you’ve been doing in the UK Young Academy itself. So could you actually maybe just talk over a few things that you’ve actually been doing as part of the UK Young Academy and people could maybe look a bit more into. 

Keri Wong (08:18) 

Sure. So I’ll start with firstly, the wide offering of events and workshops that think UKYA provides to the members. last event went to was a sort of science diplomacy workshop that I really enjoyed and it certainly resonates with some of the work that I’m currently doing. So I think training like that is very valuable and not something that I would totally otherwise have exposure to. 

So I’m grateful for all types of training that are being offered by then maybe digging a bit deeper, and Alistair certainly knows about this too, is sort of within three weeks of joining UKYA, being able to represent UKYA to two different science diplomacy conferences and events. 

In June, first one I ever went to was Science Advice Mechanism, which is, I guess, a big event or conference as part of the EU Commission. And I saw the opportunity in the newsletter and had to jump on that opportunity and signed up for again, it’s not something that I had done at the EU level as it were. I certainly had some exposure through the policy work more on the UK level recently. And so I was very curious to see, well, how are young academies being represented perhaps at the EU level? What is mechanism and how does it feed into EU strategy around science diplomacy? certainly at that event, know, met a lot of other young academy leaders. International leaders who I miss face and the conversations were really, really fruitful in a sense that left me thinking for days after what was my role as a scientist as well. And shortly after, just a few days Alastair and I were the delegates to join the ENYA conference, which is, let me just acronym right, European National Young Academies Conference. And this is Bern’s a beautiful place to be, but not least to just, again, continue some of these science diplomacy conversations, more at the young academy level I really enjoyed that event and being able to network with lot of young academies but certainly to join in and also lead on some of these conversations as well. So maybe Alastair you had some thoughts on this as well. 

Alistair McConnell (10:52) 

would have said it was absolutely fantastic meeting all the other ⁓ young academies, a huge range that there really are. I would definitely congratulate you as well on the different acronyms, because that is one of the things, there’s so many acronyms for all of So just really, I mean, you’ve been passionate about obviously the science diplomacy and the different conferences or workshops that you attended, but is there actually a project or say an initiative within the Young Academy that you’re kind of particularly proud of? 

Keri Wong (11:20) 

That’s a great question. I think I’m still in my early days, but I’ve certainly signed up to be part of quite a few at the moment. I think any of the works that are focused on science, science diplomacy, and, you know, join the group and would love to hear more to see how I can participate. But certainly, projects related to young people. 

And giving voice to young people, encouraging them or supporting them on their career trajectories also resonates a lot with me. then still on top of that, I think any work on EDI related work as well, I’m also very much about. I’m finding myself having more opportunities and options to choose from and saying yes to everything, but then I can actually have time for. I think that is something that many UKYA members have spoken about as well when we were inducted. So I definitely feel that we were spoiled with choice as it were. 

Alistair McConnell (12:17) 

It’s very true, I find it ⁓ quite a challenge as well. But have you actually faced any challenges along the way and how did you actually overcome them as well? 

Keri Wong (12:25) 

Yeah, I think the challenge of choice is definitely one of them. I’m not sure I have the best answer in terms of how I’ve overcome them. I think just the fact that there were by default events that I wanted to go to or sign up for but couldn’t make because it clashes with other obligations. And so I find myself in that situation quite a bit. 

And I would say maybe I just need to be a bit more strategic and choosy in what I do next and where I spend my time. But so far in the early days of UKYA, I’m still very much enjoying getting to know everyone, getting to know all the… projects that are happening and maybe one day I’ll be able to propose a project and also do something more focused as well. 

Alistair McConnell (13:11) 

That’s great. I would say yes, the challenge of choice is quite a good challenge to have pretty much for it. And you’ve made some excellent choices so far, I think, and really you’ve got some good experience and contributed quite a lot. we’ve said a little bit about how you’ve kind of contributed to the UK Young Academy, but how has your involvement actually with the UK Young Academy shaped your work or your perspectives, say? 

Keri Wong (13:21) 

Thank you. A very good question. And I was reflecting on this a lot after our, you know, is this sort of conferences and meeting all the young academies and having those discussions about science diplomacy. I think I feel even more strongly that scientists need to be speaking out and be involved in thinking about how best we can facilitate science diplomacy in our respective fields, as it were. 

I was struck by the energy that was in the room for a lot of those conversations. And I think a part of me is often asking, well, how do I bring this energy back to my academic, o r maybe how do we bring this energy back to UKYA community as well? What can we do locally in the UK that could also align perhaps with some of what EU strategies are up to? I don’t have the answer, but I do think we are a community that is willing and open enough to listen and collaborate and share. And we’re all passionate, I think, about positive change. So in that sense, I think we all bond over this. It’s more a matter of, OK, let’s think a bit more strategically about what is our role as UKYA in all of this. And are there things that we could be leading as well or hosting in the future that could be beneficial for the conversation and moving the dial for science diplomacy even in this space. So yeah, think certainly in my line of work now, in the last, I say 18 months because that was when I’ve been on the policy fellowship, but certainly I think I feel like I’m a changed individual in a sense that I can’t unsee what I know now about or undo what I know now, what science diplomacy is and how important it is for me as a scientist as well. is certainly something that’s forever changed my career. It’s almost like an extra skill that I have now in my toolbox, or it’s a tool in my toolbox. 

Alistair McConnell (15:37) 

That’s great. So you’ve touched on actually a little bit within that answer there, but it’s something I would actually I would ask as well. And it’s a question that most academics have in the back of their mind a lot of the times. So what impact do you actually hope your work will have both within the UK Academy community and potentially beyond it as well? 

Keri Wong (15:57) 

Hmm, that’s a very good question. think as an academic, my impact is or has been so far quite local. So it’s, it’s the young people that I work with and whether their lives actually change for the better. It’s all the other stakeholders I work with as well. So from teachers to parents to local authorities and various actors as well. But increasingly, so I think with the policy stuff now that I’ve gotten more exposure, through UKYA and other means. It is, you know, the kind of truth to it all, which is you decision makers to be on board as well with seeing the change that you’ve made. And unless they are also on board, you won’t wider change or scaled up change at the national level or international level. I’m increasingly seeing more of my role as almost like a mediator or someone, knowledge broker, they call it right, to be able to see, how do we join up these different sectors in society and how do we ensure, you know, more of stakeholders’ needs are actually matched in the system? So taking more of a systemic approach to thinking, we, move the dial towards the positive change and ensure that there are more lasting effects than the maybe therapy work that I’m doing on ground or the one individual that I impact. How do we actually scale that up is a big question that I’m asking right now and that would be, if I can understand that, that would be hopefully my impact. 

Alistair McConnell (17:35) 

That’d be great. When great. When you figure out how to do that scale up and when you work that out, please get back in touch with me because I’d love to know how to do that as well. 

Keri Wong (17:42) 

Yeah, and it’s certainly not by myself as well and alone. you know!

Alistair McConnell (17:47) 

That’s one of reasons we’re part of the UK Young Academy, we’ve got that collaborative effort for everything. Now, another one is, are there actually any key lessons you’ve learned through your UK Young Academy involvement? Obviously you’ve touched on the of the challenge of choice, but are there any other lessons you might think you’ve learned? 

Keri Wong (18:04) 

Yeah, I think it helped that I was thrown in the deep end right very early on. I think there’s something about believing in what you’re bringing to the table. I think that isn’t often always clear or when we’re in new spaces or new part of joining new communities. I mean, our default position is, okay, let’s wait and see and make sure I’m not saying anything wrong or that this is the culture I need to be fitting in with. 

But I think with UKYA, I very quickly felt right at home in a sense that I could see the types of people who are part of the community. And I felt welcome to share my opinions and ideas and the collaborative nature of it all also meant that we all had something in common, even though we are quite and coming from very different backgrounds. And I think some of that is like skill-based, others is sort of topic subject-based, but I think more than that, I think it’s also at the personal level. I think there is that, as I spoke about the passion, the want to change things for the better, or at least the optimism, I think, and hope that I think we all hold, that feels to me something that onto in the community that I think… we can go quite far with as well. So yeah, so those are, I think, the things that not necessarily lessons learned, but things that I would say, know, join a new community, be in the knowledge and the expertise that you’re bringing to the space, and also be willing to learn from other people 

Alistair McConnell (19:46) 

They’ll sound like excellent lessons. So it’s perfect. Thank you. 

Keri Wong (19:48) 

Thank 

Wenmiao Yu (19:50) 

Yeah, absolutely. 

Love the lessons and I think, earlier, Keri, both you and Alistair did touch on how in the UKYA there’s a very clear spirit of collaboration. And I saw how there’s also a lot of desire from all the members to contribute and volunteer at a time. I think that’s quite rare to find in a member But I think it’s wonderful that we have we first met, when you first joined the UKYA as part of the third cohort earlier this year. 

And I just wanted to ask, know, where do you see yourself and the UKYA being in say another three years time? 

Keri Wong (20:22) 

Hmm, I would say we are maybe at the cusp of the projects really taking off, right? ⁓ And I think we’re probably gonna see a lot more of these projects being sustained or growing even bigger, even wider sort of collaborations. I think my cohort is lucky in a sense that our predecessors have helpfully set up everything now, there are processes in place. 

And there are now maybe even more opportunities coming our way as as our brand and name becomes more well known internationally. So I think there will be more possibly maybe even coming our way as well. And maybe UKYA playing more of a a key role in hosting our many academies as well. from the meetings, I got a sense that, you know, despite the fact that we’re not in the EU anymore, they very much still value us. And that they were very much wanting to, you know, include us in future plans and they recognize our as well. So I think there’s real, opportunities here for us to play a bigger role. 

Wenmiao Yu (21:29) 

That’s great. And Keri, how do you plan to, mesh together your experience as a researcher, as someone who’s done the secondment in policy, and also now as someone with the UKYA? the one thing that you’re hoping to be able to bring together in all those strands of your life in the next year? 

Keri Wong (21:47) 

That is a great question. And I think my answer would be the common thread throughout all of this work and sort of my time, you know, up until this part of my career, would say I’m sort of early career getting into mid-career as an academic, but certainly a very early career in the policy space. I would say the importance of encouraging early career, you know, it could be academics, could be into these various spaces is going to be very important. And something I’m finding myself noticing, I suppose, having gone through that period of my life, now to know, ⁓ actually at the decision making table, why are there no early career academics here or expertise here? Because that perspective is so important. And then, you know, thinking about, well, what would that look means there needs to be some senior members advocating for early careers to be in the room, for example. And in UKYA, obviously, many of us are early career, of various, different disciplines. I see us as being more of the driving force or the people with a lot of energy and also ideas who are able to move things forward almost for many of us, maybe the engine room for a lot of what we’re thinking about. 

And I think a lot of the issues that we all care about are so big that we need to come together and have a space to collaborate. And then finally, in the academic space, I’ve certainly set up a few early career researcher networks that are super important. And now after, I would say, five, six years, it’s really bearing fruit. And certainly funders are valuing the importance of recognising early career academics and resourcing early career academics and also understanding the unique challenges that this group is facing, not least the socio-political changes that are constantly changing as well. So I think for me, across these three spaces, it’s how do we maximize early career voices in all of these spaces to ensure that they are aligned with the big issues that we’re trying to address as well, or decisions that we’re trying to make. 

Wenmiao Yu (24:08) 

And for any UK YA members listening to this podcast, what is one thing that they can do to help support you with your work? 

Keri Wong (24:17) 

Oh, great question. Well, firstly, maybe send me a ping, ping me a message. I think I’m getting the hang of Slack, so I will be checking that more often. And I guess, yeah, anyone who just wants to have a chat, like I’d love to, you know, have a coffee, grab a coffee in person or, you know, online, quite flexible. And I think any informal chats are a good way to start thinking about new ideas. 

So yeah, I’m all for coffee chats and meetups. Yeah. 

Wenmiao Yu (24:48) 

Fantastic. So now, Kerri will moving into the quickfire round in this episode. I’m going to ask you three questions and hope that you can respond with the first thing that comes to mind. So first, what’s the best piece of advice that you’ve received personally? 

Keri Wong (24:59) 

Thanks. 

Just go for it. piece of advice. No overthinking necessary and often we do that naturally anyway. But I think it’s that, just go for it, just give it a try. No regrets 

Wenmiao Yu (25:15) 

And one thing that you cannot work without. 

Keri Wong (25:18) 

Probably my phone. I’m quite addicted to my phone. phone. 

Wenmiao Yu (25:22) 

My phone. Aren’t we all? Last question. What is a book, podcast or resource that you’d recommend? 

Keri Wong (25:28) 

Ooh, well, I’m going to be a bit naughty here and pitch a podcast for early careers that I actually host. It’s called Academia XL. So it’s a podcast by ECRs for ECRs. So if you’re a lost academic or an ECR academic who is deciding whether to stay in academia or leave or vice versa, this is probably a good podcast with some relevant episodes for you to check out. 

Wenmiao Yu (25:56) 

Well, I’ve got my evening listening to sorted then. 

Alistair McConnell (26:00) 

That was great. And yeah, I’ve definitely got some of my evening and definitely my driving listening sorted as well. I just want to thank you so much, Keri, for coming along, giving us such interesting answers to the work that you’ve been doing, your personal work, your academic work, and what you’ve been doing at UK Young Academy, and really what it’s meant to you and what you’ve contributed to it as well. You got any final thoughts or advice for anyone listening to this? Maybe if they’re potentially, as you said, thinking of joining UK Young Academy or even people like me who’ve been in it for a few years. Any advice or thoughts for us? 

Keri Wong (26:31) 

I would say if you’re thinking about joining UKYA, again, go for it. And for your information, I tried twice, so I was only successful the second time. So that’s probably helpful to know. existing members, ⁓ I would say, yeah, let’s meet up for coffee and let’s collaborate. Love to hear how we can create something great 

Alistair McConnell (26:56) 

That’s great. Now you did mention your podcast, but just going to you an opportunity. So if people want to learn more about your work or to connect with you, what’s the best way to do that? 

Keri Wong (27:05) 

I’d say Google’s our great friend. So do Google me, you’ll find a bunch of but particularly my lab website might be useful. So it’s keriwong.com. And if you want to follow up on our research updates, I’m also on social media, LinkedIn and X. The handle is at Dr. Keri Wong. 

Alistair McConnell (27:27) 

That’s great. Well, just again, thank you so much for coming along. That is the end of our ⁓ podcast for today. Join us in the future to hear more from members of the UK Young Academy. Thank you all very much for listening and until next time.